Chris Cowley and Jonathan Fisher are natives of Kilkenny. Chris began his studies in Kevin Street in 1953 for his O and A Levels GCE. Jim Roche and Huge de Lacy were on the teaching staff at that time. He later studied and graduated in electrical engineering, and worked in Coventry for the General Electric Company for a short time. He returned to Kevin Street in 1963, and was appointed lecturer in telecommunications. Jonathan Fisher was appointed lecturer in Kevin Street in 1972, in the Electrical Engineering and Telecommunications Departments. The Departments were jointly involved in a new CEI four-year Degree course. Both men discuss the challenges in teaching at that time, the differences in the quality of mathematics as taught then and today, and the pioneering days in setting up new programmes. In the second section of this recording Chris Cowley and Jonathan Fisher discuss the setting up of the National Council of Education Awards which examined the two higher technicians programmes, being the accreditation authority for the RTCs and for DIT, which was crucial in the development of education in Ireland. In 1992, following the setting up of DIT, a certain rivalry developed between Kevin Street and Bolton Street, which is discussed in the recording. Chris retired in 1999 and Jonathan retired in 2004.